the rachel maddow show 7/12/17 kushner under fire - how to make air cooler at home

Guest of July 12, 2017: Sean Harris, Greg Gordon Steve Schmidt, Republican strategist:-it's not a big deal to imagine any Republican congressman in Congress reacting to that.
This is the Titanic deal.
You 've never seen anything like this before.
This has made the Russian government at the heart of the Trump campaign.
To be frank, they insist that meetings are a big problem that is not credible.
Chris Hayes, MSNBC host: Okay.
Thank you, Steve Schmidt.
"Everything is here" this evening ".
Rachel Mado's show is now on.
Good evening, Rachel.
Host: Good evening, Chris.
Thank you, my friend. HAYES: You bet.
MADDOW: Thank you for joining us this hour.
We have a very interesting moment tonight.
We have two very good investigative reporters who will be with us tonight, one from maclach and one from the Wall Street Journal.
"Both of them have exclusive news today, and they both personally went through with us tonight what they have learned and what they have just reported because, frankly, there are a lot of reports today.
But I want to start with something that comes out of May. May.
Time magazine published a big article about Russia's attack on the United States. S.
Election last year
As we have been discussing, there are actually three points and three different components of this effort.
First, Russia launched a direct hacking attempt to infiltrate local and state electoral systems across the country.
Register mainly for voters.
We still don't know why they did this or what access they received through that attack was.
What they are trying to do, does this lay the foundation for things to come.
I just want to say that I feel that during the Trump administration, the Department of Homeland Security seems to be investigating the consequences of hacking and whether or not the United StatesS.
The electoral system may suffer some degree of damage because of this kind of attack, which we may not understand until this effect is launched at some point in the future.
But after the national and local election software and the election infrastructure, this pure hacking is the first part of the Russian attack.
The second reason for the attack was their attack on political institutions, especially the Democratic National Committee, the Clinton campaign.
This is where Russian hackers steal information from American servers, and then, unlike normal espionage, Russians keep these files and keep them secret for themselves, so, the Russian government can use this information to inform its actions.
Instead, they repackaged the information and gave it back to us.
They give feedback to the American public in a way that aims to do the most harm to one presidential candidate, Hillary Clinton, and provide the best interest for another presidential candidate, Donald Trump.
So this is the second time.
The first is an attack on elections, election infrastructure.
The second is to steal, repack, and send the stolen to the American public.
The third of the three of them
What they do on social and media Media.
Manipulating news and news online discussions, interrupting and manipulating social media traffic has once again hurt Hillary Clinton, a candidate in the presidential election, and helped their preferred candidate, Donald TrumpIn mid-
May, Time magazine, conducted an in-depth study of the last leg of the Russian attack.
Part of social media.
The report was wonderful.
This is a very good article.
The report was written by mámo kalabares, a very good journalist and very well written.
You may remember that it was the first issue of Time magazine. they put this picture on the cover and the White House is slowly turning into the Kremlin.
Well, deep into that story, when that story came back, they had this new detail that didn't get a lot of attention.
But looking back now, he should obviously do so.
He reported on Time magazine's mid May that the US intelligence service had conducted an interception. S.
Intelligence interceptions occurred last spring in 2016. S.
The intelligence service overheard a conversation between two Russian officials in Russia.
They are talking about a Russian plan, citing the words that created chaos in last year's presidential election.
They are talking about Russia using its assets to try to hurt Hillary Clinton in last year's presidential election. Russian resources directed by the Kremlin spread damaging information about Hillary Clinton through the resources of the Russian military intelligence agency, manipulating the views of the American public on Hillary Clinton, through GRU.
So, that's-intelligence interceptions about the dialogue that was overheard between Russian officials in May 2016, and in May 2017, in May 27, Time magazine originally reported the conversation.
Report on the United StatesS.
The intelligence intercept overheard two Russian officials talking to each other,
Peter Stone and Greg Gordon are reporting today in "maclach.
Quote: When Donald Trump locked the presidential nomination in May 2016, the U. S.
The intelligence intercept has asked Russians to discuss how to spread news that is bad for Hillary Clinton.
Two people familiar with the matter were quoted as saying.
So the intelligence intercept of May 2016, now reported by Time magazine and maclach, the Russians are talking about how to manipulate the US news about Hillary Clinton, the importance of this is now much more obvious than we originally understood.
It's more important because of its timing, right?
If the discussion between these Russian officials took place in May 2016, we now know what's going on next, right?
On June 2016, in early June 2016, the secret meeting between Donald Trump Jr.
Trump campaign chairman Paul manafut and Trump's son-in-law Jared Kushner are at the Trump Tower.
They met with a special envoy of the Russian government, a Russian-speaking lawyer who brought in a translator who met with the top of the Trump campaign team at Trump Tower, because they clearly think that she is the delivery agent for Trump's campaign for official Russian documents and information that somehow convicted Hillary Clinton, who can be in the campaign against her
Now, since e-
Email settings
Donald Trump, Jr. , disclosed the mail.
Many people noticed yesterday morning.
Trump does not seem surprised.
When he was told bluntly in this email, he did not seem to be surprised at all
The email called for this meeting, citing the statement that apparently very high level and sensitive information is part of Russia and the support of the Russian government for Putin. Trump.
We have complete electronics.
Email chain, at least Donald Trump Jr.
It's the whole electronics. mail chain.
He did not respond by saying, wait a minute, Russia and its government support Obama. Trump?
He doesn't look shocked at all, does he?
He did not say it was part of how Russia and its government supported Obama. Trump?
What are the other parts?
What are the other ways they help, right?
He did not respond in surprise.
He seemed not surprised at all.
Hearing that the envoy from the Russian government promised to provide the dirt of Hillary Clinton, he did not seem surprised to hear that it was part of the Russian government's support for his father's election.
So it's not surprising that little Donald Trump
This apparent involvement of the Russian government in our elections will obviously not surprise or bother Paul Manafort or Jared Kushner, which is not enough to prevent them from attending the meeting, even though they are told what it is.
Okay, look back, the background now, we know that the Russian attack has started at that point in time, right?
This is not the beginning of it.
Russian intelligence officials were arrested by the United States in the previous month, May 2016. S.
Intelligence intercepted plans for Russia to spread disruptive news about Hillary Clinton to help Trump's prospects in the campaign.
So, the discussion in May.
The meeting was held on June.
Since then, we have learned about the scale and impact of Russian attacks trying to manipulate the country's social media and news media, and there are a lot of-I think a lot of serious issues have been raised, regarding whether the Russians can successfully complete the attack as they did, there is no domestic help
If no one in the United States helps them do this most effectively.
Some people have raised serious questions about whether there are people in the United States. S.
May have to help them in their efforts, such as what groups of American voters are targeted and what information is expected to work, how can they match their media manipulation with the Trump campaign's attempts to hurt Hillary Clinton in their own way at the time.
When we realize the scope of what Russia is doing with its social media, there are already a lot of questions, right?
"Mcclage" reported today that investigators from the House Intelligence Committee and the Senate Intelligence Committee, as well as from the Justice Department, are now paying attention to this.
They are now paying special attention to whether the digital operation of the Trump campaign itself may be an entity that helps Russia participate in the attack, whether the digital aspect of Trump's campaign is part of helping Russians target news media manipulation and what they do through social media.
Greg Gordon is one of the two "mclarich" reporters who are covering the story today.
We will be talking about the story with Greg Gordon live in a few minutes tonight.
I should also tell you that, in that story, "maclach" spoke to a former Pentagon official, an official who had just left the Defense Department in January, there he served as assistant deputy defense minister for Russia, Ukraine and Eurasia.
Senior Pentagon officials in charge of Russia now say that the part of last year's Russian attack, citing that there seems to be significant cooperation between Russia's online propaganda machine and American individuals who know where to target false information.
Again, this is the person from the Pentagon in charge of Russia, when the Russian attack is taking place.
Tomorrow night, we will have an interview with the former official, the former Pentagon official, on the show.
So, you should cancel your plan for Thursday night now.
So, everything is piled up.
The headline of "maclage" today may have distressed the Trump White House: Trump-
Russian investigators investigating Kushner
Run the digital business because he is responsible for the digital business during the Trump campaign.
But even after that, later this evening, this particular story gets even worse for the Trump White House, because later this evening, charlie Savage of The New York Times reports on a new lawsuit that has just been filed within the statute of limitations.
This is a lawsuit filed by donors against a staff member of the Democratic Party and the DNC.
They are suing the Trump campaign.
This is a lawsuit filed by a group recently founded by a former Obama administration lawyer.
This is an organization called "Protecting Democracy.
Look at them and see what they will do.
Now, they have filed a lawsuit against the Trump campaign, claiming that although it may have been a Russian government hacker who broke into the DNC and stole the DNC information in the first place, the lawsuit claimed that, it was actually the Trump campaign who plotted to release the information to the American public.
This is actually a violation of the privacy suit, because the personal information of these donors and DNC staff, and everything else, is made public and targeted at dumping DNC stuff, the lawsuit is not just about Russian action, but about Russian action planned by the Trump campaign.
So, we have posted a link to the complaint in the lawsuit filed in the federal district court of D. C.
If it's just because if you 've been trying to keep track of known facts, data, and documents made by Trump
The Russian investigation so far, this lawsuit may be a new source of e-commerce
Mail, text, phone records, other main source files.
Through this discovery process, and through this lawsuit, they want to overturn the witness, and they want the campaign papers.
Similarly, it is particularly concerned about whether Trump is involved in the campaign, and other things that are seen as Russian action. So --
What I should mention is that the lawyers involved in this matter, the people who are suing the Trump campaign here are very high
Someone who knows what he's doing.
So that's it.
I mean, if you think about this from the perspective of the Trump White House, when you think about it from the perspective of their lawyers, the legal team, those who are trying to defend the president, those who defend the Trump campaign --
The Russian incident on this issue.
They are now working on the investigation by special adviser Robert Miller.
They are dealing with the Senate Judicial Committee to investigate issues that may hinder justice.
They are focusing on the Senate Intelligence Committee and the House Intelligence Committee, and on the Russian attack and Trump's potential campaign collusion in the attack.
Now, beyond that, they're still going through the court system, through the federal court, to look at what could be a very powerful offensive.
All this has to do with the second hurdle of the Russian attack, the hacking of the DNC, where they stole the information and returned it to the American people.
Imagine trying to manage defense on all these fronts.
The person who is considered to be the captain of the team is Mark cassowitz, a New York lawyer who has represented Donald Trump and his business interests as well as his divorce and other things.
That's how Trump brought him to Washington to defend Russia.
Mark cassowitz is not the only lawyer involved in the defense and he should be in charge of the team.
According to the New York Times, Mark cassowitz is considering resigning.
"ProPublica" also published a huge article today
About Marc Kasowitz's curling story today, part of it is a personal profile, but part of it is a suspense about whether Marc Kasowitz can continue to be the protagonist of Trump's defense.
Even if he continues to stay and does not resign, they are questioning whether he can continue to defend effectively.
Tonight, we also posted this "ProPublica" story on our website. It`s long.
If you're interested in this side of the story, it's fascinating.
I should tell you, though, that it has a lot of personal information that belittles Mr.
Kasowitz, including his lifestyle, and even his medical problems, has a lot of details about his behavior at the office Christmas party, and I'm not kidding.
This is an unusual thing.
There are some unnamed sources in this article, but there are also many named sources, including named sources that are closely related to the president.
So, in terms of who likes who and who is out, I'm not that interested in getting to know the plot of the palace.
And, you know, what's going on between people who work for the president in their personal name.
But between the New York Times reports that senior Russian Lawyers for the president may resign, this is incredibly covering a series of negative personal information he just posted in this big story of "ProPublica", which is very bad, and it's just whether you care about the people involved here.
This is starting to be a factor that we should focus on, because whether the president has really been adequately defended as this scandal intensifies.
In any case, when it comes to defending the Washington scandal, he chose a strange defense team.
But the person in charge of the matter, if he is to resign, is now facing this series of attacks, which is a factor.
Not just the president's legal team is starting to look a bit shaky.
Senior White House officials are also showing signs of pressure, including Vice President Mike Pence, whose spokesman is struggling today to refuse to answer a campaign about Mike Pence's engagement with Russian officials.
We will discuss this issue later today.
As for Jared Kushner, the only White House official currently meeting with Russian lawyer Jared Kushner at Trump Tower in June, he faces Chris Murphy, a Democratic senator from Connecticut, today ). Jared Kushner has allowed the White House, including a White House spokesman, Vice President Mike Pence, and senior advisers such as Kylie Ann Conway, why he has allowed these people around him to stick publicly for months, there was certainly no meeting with Russian officials during the campaign, when Jared Kushner knew there was already, because in at least one case he attended that meeting.
I mean, allow other White House officials, including Vice President Mike Pence, to make false statements about whether they are in contact with Russians, right?
I mean, isn't Mike Flynn on the surface fired for this?
So Jared Kushner is facing some serious questions tonight about why he is on the side and has the White House and senior White House officials repeatedly lie about the first-hand information he has.
He also faces serious questions about whether he should lose his security clearance, which allows him to serve as a senior White House adviser.
We will also discuss more tonight.
Among the president's defense lawyers in Congress, some things are starting to become a bit unstable, although in this case, I think shaking might just be an egg that is about to hatch.
It's probably just what we're going to see, and I hope it's a big-
A massive political counterattack by Republicans and conservative media is trying to turn the scandal into something else that has nothing to do with President Trump.
Today is the Senate confirmation hearing for Christopher Wray, the new FBI director nominated by the Trump administration.
The chairman of the committee presiding over the confirmation hearing was Senator Chuck Grassley of Iowa.
It's a bit strange, although I said last night to pay attention to this, it's a bit strange today, and Senator Grasley spent a lot of time at today's confirmation hearing to focus on the current acting director of the FBI.
He said he hoped Andrew McKay would not be involved in any investigation involving Mike Flynn.
The chair continues today's very important hearing for the FBI director and will also continue "Fox and Friends" and answer their questions about whether Russian lawyers have met with Don Jr.
Everything in the Trump Tower is a democratic arrangement.
He boasted to them about how Donald Trump's Russian scandal profile needs to be investigated.
Not being investigated to determine if it's true or not, whether it's based on reality, but its presence needs to be investigated, because maybe the existence of the file is a real scandal here, and a Russian lawyer may be a setup, the "Fusion GPS" that pays for the archives, maybe they're super villains here, they did, and Russia didn't.
So, in the Trump world, things are a bit shaky right now.
Some key members of Trump's legal team are wobbling.
Senior Trump administration officials, including the vice president, have their own troubles with the story.
Because nepotism is clearly normal now, the trouble at the top of the Trump administration has also caused problems for the Trump family, especially the Trump family-the Trump son-in-
Both the law and Trump's eldest son may face serious legal issues about the actions they have reported in the past few days.
Among the Republicans in Congress, I continue to put a flag there.
The flag I stayed there last night is still waving because there is expected to be a counter-attack trying to turn this into a democracy scandal.
Efforts to turn the scandal into a democracy scandal have been fully launched in conservative media.
The president began posting some conservative media articles on Twitter today.
Republican lawmakers, including senior Republican senators like Chuck Grassley, began using these talk points and pointed the way in that direction. It is coming.
All of this, all of these different places, we can see the emergency button hit, and on top of that, the Wall Street Journal got a new scoop today from National Security Correspondent Shane Harris.
This is the story. (
Business break)
MoDo: Shane Harris, a national security correspondent for The Wall Street Journal, broke the first story of the collusion between the United States and Russia's attack on our election.
The Wall Street Journal's Shane Harris reported two weeks ago about the death of a Republican political agent who formed a team late last summer to contact Russian government hackers to try to get counter-
Hillary Clinton oppo used from them in the United StatesS.
Help the election of Donald Trump.
The lingering, still unanswered question about the report is whether the project was launched with Mike Flynn, then senior advisor to Trump's campaign.
This is still an outstanding issue.
But now, Shane Harris of The Wall Street Journal has a new scoop with two very important new details.
Can we put that title on the screen?
We'll have Shane Harris here in a moment to talk about the importance of what he just reported here and what he found.
But in my opinion, look at this new story he posted and here are two very important new things.
The first is the headlines, and before the start of the campaign, Russian officials overheard a discussion about Trump's aides.
Quote from Shane harris, Quote: In the spring of 2015, before Trump announced his candidacy for president, U. S.
Intelligence agencies found Russian government officials discussing conversations with Donald Trump's associates.
In some cases, the Russians talked about meetings outside the United States in conversations they overheard. S.
Involving Russian government officials and Trump's business partners.
Now, as I said, we will hear from Shane Harris himself in a minute about what he can tell us about these meetings, leading to surveillance of these intelligence reports.
However, he did say in this Wall Street Journal: The reports of these meetings are not shocking in themselves, but the Russians mentioned that the number of Trump colleagues does have officials asking each other, what happened? So, that`s one.
That was about 2015 before Trump announced his candidacy.
Another thing Shane Harris reported tonight in the Wall Street Journal is this: in the spring of 2016, European intelligence officials warned the United StatesS.
Intelligence officials say Russian funds could flow into the United States. S.
Presidential election.
It is not clear whether or not the funds were transferred to a particular campaign or whether they were used by someone else on behalf of the candidate.
So as early as 2015, Russians were talking about all the meetings they had with their Trump colleagues, many of them.
At some point in the spring of 2016, European intelligence agencies warned the United StatesS.
Russian money is flowing into our presidential election.
At least no one knows why or how to do it now.
Then in 2016, now, will this be considered spring, late spring, early summer?
Near the winter solstice.
In 2016, Russian officials reported for the first time in time a few weeks ago that Russian officials were talking about the Russian government's attempts to spread derogatory news about Hillary Clinton.
So what is going on with all these meetings with Trump colleagues and Russian government officials in the spring of 2015?
In the spring of 2016, they were talking about how to spread derogatory news about Hillary Clinton.
2016-I mean, then the time of the Trump Tower tour, right?
Paul Jared Jr.
How are you?
Have you seen this Russian lawyer?
She was sent by the Russian government.
All these things are now piled up in the chronology.
Many things have happened.
There are many new reports now.
But I really want to tell you that everything is starting to get in order now.
I began to think that I finally understood how this thing was piled up.
I'm not as confused as I was a long time ago.
But now is the time for news to grow rapidly.
Shane Harris of The Wall Street Journal will be with us next.
We also have Greg Gordon from "maclach" joining us tonight.
Also, if you haven't heard about Mike Pence yet
With regard to Russia's investigation today, you will definitely want to stay and solve the air problem.
There's a lot ahead of us. Stay with us. (
Business break)
Shane Harris is a senior national security writer for The Wall Street Journal.
He revealed that Russian officials were being monitored by the United States. S.
Intelligence agencies discussed their meeting with his aides before the president officially ran for the presidency, dating back to 2015.
Shane Harris, thank you for being with us tonight.
I really appreciate your time.
Shane harris, senior national security writer at The Wall Street Journal: Thank you for inviting me, Rachel.
MADDOW: So, what can you tell us about the 2015 conversations you reported today?
Obviously, it's the date before this.
Trump has announced he will run for president.
But you seem to point out in the report that the number of these meetings and the number of these meetings, the number of these interceptions itself is amazing for the United States. S.
Get to know their agency.
Harris: That's right.
I mean, if you could bring yourself back to the spring of 2015 while Donald Trump is still running, he might still be running, he's a TV celebrity, intelligence officials are gathering these reports of routine surveillance in Russia and talking about Donald Trump, a meeting with Trump colleagues is emerging.
This is very puzzling.
This is not an entirely unheard-of America. S.
During the conversation, Russians may mention business people or celebrities.
But for the officials at the time, it seems odd in number.
As I have described, is this a bit of a water cooler conversation about what's going on here?
Why are they talking about these associates?
What are these allusions to the meeting?
Until the passage of time, frankly, even in recent weeks, we have seen more revelation, and you go back to that initial point in the narrative, and it starts to make sense, or it may seem like this is part of the narrative being constructed.
I think what we see here is like a picture that is developing.
As more and more information is layered, it becomes clearer and clearer.
Now, this article is particularly important because investigators can go back and revisit the 2015 report and say, did we not realize at the time what was important in it?
But now, we see why this is important, or why it is combined with information that has emerged since then?
MADDOW: is there any dispute about this monitoring?
Obviously, if this is surveillance of Russian government sources, Russians, it is not particularly controversial for the United States. S.
But people associated with Donald Trump
Is it controversial that Trump's name appears in these intelligence reports?
Could this be something that the Trump campaign or Republicans or others who care about privacy issues might care about?
Harris: Well, in terms of this disclosure and the issue of the American name, it could be controversial. S.
The person who appeared in the report
It is also important to remember that these names will only be unveiled if investigators believe there is reason to understand the context of intelligence.
So, I just want to say that it's not entirely clear which colleagues might be mentioned here, or even whether the Russians are implying a meeting with people around Trump.
But when we look back at this again now, officials may call more people to dig up those names, and now, we have passed the time frame of April 2015, at the time, officials regularly monitored people in Russia and wondered why Trump had such a business.
At that time, it didn't seem as important as it is now. MADDOW: OK.
Except for the part of your report today, what I suddenly thought was that you reported that intelligence officers were warned in the United States. S.
In the spring of 2016, European intelligence officials were warned by European intelligence officials that Russian funds could flow into the United States. S.
Presidential election in 2016
What can you tell us?
Harris: Well, I think this is a very important point in the story, because, of course, you know, it was a little behind before Donald Trump got the nomination, but this is indeed the first signal that the intelligence services we describe are starting to think about. wait a minute, Russia may be engaged in some form of intervention.
The people I spoke to who are close to the investigation are still not sure what the nature of this is.
Is the money from the Russian government somehow flowing into a campaign or is it cleaned up?
These are the problems that investigators are currently working on.
But it is enough for the European intelligence department to mark this to the United States. S.
We believe there is reason to believe that Russian funds are entering your election process.
It seems like this is one of the moments when the signal really starts to increase, and intelligence officials get even more shocked at what they see, and eventually later that summer, what we know now is the DNC hacking announced in June.
When you in June of 2016 reached a this time range when in this a little on the Russia intervention election really is a public of secret.
A few months later, of course, the intelligence community will publicly confirm this on the record.
Shane Harris, senior national security writer at The Wall Street Journal.
Thank you very much, Shane.
I really appreciate you coming.
Thanks, Rachel.
Thank you for inviting me.
MADDOW: We're going to say the last point, I don't want -- it's not in the title, but it could be the most important thing in this story, and the report from the European intelligence agency in the spring of 2016 warned the United StatesS.
Intelligence agencies about Russia making money into the United StatesS.
Presidential election.
I mean, the spring of 2016, the end of the main process, right?
So we know who the candidate will be.
I don't know what we will find in the end.
But this detail was reported for the first time tonight in Shane Harris's Wall Street Journal, and if nothing else, it could probably explain why so many people have registered as lawyers in the Bob Miller investigation, his background is international money laundering. All right.
There are a lot more to come here tonight, including another excellent investigative reporter joining us on the live broadcast. Stay with us. (
Business break)
Mado: There's a scoop in maclach.
This is the exclusive news: Russian operators seem to strategically arrange computer commands called robots to blitz social media and link to pro-
The story of Trump in a defensive match with Hillary Clinton.
The final products of these zombies are mainly millions of Twitter and Facebook posts, including conservative Internet sites such as "Breitbart News" and "Info Wars", as well as story links from the Kremlin.
Support "RT news" and "Sputnik News ".
This is the exclusive news of "mclaric" in the parade.
It is important that maclach noted during the march that these robot attacks are now the subject of a federal investigation led by the FBI's counter-intelligence unit.
As part of the investigation, mclarich reported that the FBI was investigating conservative websites in the United States, such as "Breitbart News" and "information war ", whether they intend to help the Russian agents who carried out the attack.
So it was in the parade.
Investigative reporters Peter Stone and Greg Gordon, who have done a lot of excellent coverage of Russia's cyber attacks against us last year.
Now, the same reporter has a brand with him. New works today
They report that Justice Department investigators and congressional investigators are investigating whether Russian attackers have received help not only from the country's conservative media sites, but also from within the Trump campaign.
Does the digital department of the Trump campaign team help Russians target their robotic attacks and fake news attacks to specific states, specific regions to increase Trump's support in those states and regions.
Of course, congressional investigators are not entirely concerned about this.
This does not seem to be the central focus of their investigation.
But we 've confirmed separately tonight that they're actually working on that angle.
"Mcclage" also reported tonight that the United StatesS.
On last May, the intelligence service intercepted Russian officials, talking about Russia's attempts to spread derogatory news about Hillary Clinton.
So, the boring question here is whether these documented and corresponding Russian efforts have been helped by the United States.
If so, what is it?
Now we are joined by Greg Gordon, the investigative journalist of "maclach. Mr.
Gordon, thank you very much for coming.
It's really nice to have you back.
Greg Gordon, maclage Investigative Reporter: Hi, Rachel.
Thank you for bringing me back.
MADDOW: So, in your report, I would like to ask you a specific quote, which is in part because of who it came from.
You quote a former senior Pentagon official who left on January, a senior Pentagon official in charge of Russian affairs, who said he told you: there seems to be significant cooperation between Russia's online propaganda machine and American individuals who know where to target false information.
This is very important to me.
I would like to ask you if, judging from his previous role in the Department of Defense, the former Pentagon official was able to know, do you know who the Americans he is talking about?
Gordon: We don't.
It's important to say we don't know.
First of all, we don't know, what they're looking into is actually going to prove, you know, that there could be an attack in Russia --
And Hillary Clinton, or even the local jurisdiction that drew a line with the local constituency.
But what we know is that this path is getting warmer and warmer, and this particular angle, because the bombing of robots and fake news and social media messages may affect the outcome of this game, it is important to see that investigators will try to figure this out.
It will be very difficult.
But they will-unless they can get some help from humans, they may run into some brick walls.
MADDOW: Yes, let me-let me ask you from your report on this, and it's clear that you 've been looking at the story from a few different angles for a while.
What do you understand about what kind of evidence they need to look?
What kind of evidence may exist in the world?
If there is something, what kind of trajectory and clues might they follow to prove this?
Gordon: That's the part I'm most interested in on the web side.
It's true, from my understanding, that the National Security Agency is actually where it starts and stops.
The NSA collects small data packets entering and leaving the country.
If Russians try to do such things from overseas, the NSA may rebuild the situation.
Still, trying to rebuild millions of robots, and where they go, and so on, is, to say the least, a huge study.
But at least you have the possibility.
Now that the Russians do this and use an American-based computer, it will be very difficult to rebuild it as far as I know.
So do you know who knows what and who will talk about what? MADDOW: I see.
Therefore, human intelligence, human procurement, human evidence about what may happen in the network environment.
Charming things.
Greg Gordon, investigative reporter for "mccrackch news", thank you for helping us understand this tonight, sir.
It's nice to have you here.
Gordon: I'm very happy.
Thanks Rachel.
MADDOW: Okay.
Here tonight, did the vice president encounter difficulties in explaining Russia's investigation into relations with him, or did he not?
Next, some very incredible tapes are included. Stay with us. (
Business break)
MADDOW: fair warning, I'm going to play you some tape of Fox News.
I'm not playing it to make fun of Fox News, not to play the cable news war, but because I think there's a legitimate news that you should see happening on Fox. Ready? OK.
On January, Vice President Mike Pence was asked if there was any contact between the Trump campaign and Russia during the campaign.
A person who thinks there is no such connection may say no.
But this is not Mike Pence's first instinct.
He didn't end up, but he had to run around the block a few times to avoid it first. (
Start Video Editing)
Chris Wallace, Fox News host: I'm asking you a direct question.
Is there any connection between Trump or his colleagues and the Kremlin?
US Vice President Mike Pence: I took part in this campaign in the summer, and I can tell you that all the connections between the Trump campaign team and colleagues are connected to the American people.
WALLACE: But is there any connection, sir?
I'm just looking for an answer. PENCE: Yes.
Of course not.
Why are there contacts? (END VIDEO CLIP)
So he has a different story to tell.
He really didn't want to answer the question, but Chris Wallace put pressure on him and eventually he got there.
Later that morning, Mike Pence became better at answering the question correctly. (
Start Video Editing)
CBS News host John Dixon: are any advisers or anyone on the Trump campaign team connected with Russians trying to intervene in the election?
Pence: of course not. (END VIDEO CLIP)
MADDOW: don't go straight, of course.
The problem now, of course, is that the Trump campaign and Russian officials have engaged during the campaign.
Before the meeting we learned this week, there were multiple contacts, including the president's son and son --in-
Both law and campaign president are looking for disruptive information about Clinton from the Kremlin
A contact lawyer at Trump Tower was told clearly that she represented the Russian government.
No, no contacts.
Yes, there are contacts.
To be honest, Mike Pence also insisted that Mike Flynn did not speak to any Russian officials on the issue of sanctions, although we now know that he did talk to Russian officials about sanctions.
Mike Pence explained that he was cheated.
Mike Pence also honestly insisted that he did not know that Flynn was not included in a foreign payroll until after Mike Flynn was fired as a national security adviser.
This denial is hard to believe because Mike Pence is the person in charge of the transition and has received multiple notifications, including written ones, in a number of ways.
Many told them that Mike Flynn took the wages of foreign governments.
But now, today, it's more about Mike Pence from this scandal.
Fox News's Bill Heimer asked Vice President spokesman Mike Pence today if he had seen Russian officials.
Now, this is another question of yes or no.
A boss who certainly does not have a meeting with Russian officials can refuse and they will move on.
But this is not the case. (
Start Video Editing)
Fox News host Bill Heimer: has the vice president met a representative of Russia?
Mike Lott, Pence spokesman: The vice president is not paying attention to the field of the campaign, especially what happened before he boarded the ticket.
Alzheimer: come back to this question.
If he is not a Russian citizen, has he met with a representative of the Russian government during the election campaign?
This is what the special prosecutor and the lawyer are looking.
HEMMER: in order to solve this problem, so it is clear to us whether this is positive or negative?
Is he, in fact, relevant?
I don't know what I saw. (END VIDEO CLIP)
His spokesman will not say no.
Did Vice President Mike Pence meet with the representative of the Russian government?
We don't know if the answer is yes or no, but we know his spokesman won't say no.
Mike Pence is often considered less popular in the growing Russian legend.
I think it's because he looks so meaningful when he talks about the camera.
But so far, he did make some blatantly false statements about Trump/Russia's contacts, especially given what happened today at Fox News everywhere. Credit to them.
He should not be taken lightly in the scandal.
Look at this space. (
Business break)
Senate Republicans say they will release a second edition.
They repeal very unpopular bills for affordable health care bills.
NBC News reported tonight that while there are indeed some changes to the new version of the bill, they have not been able to pass it recently, especially the sharp cuts in Medicaid still exist, the new version of the bill is still likely to make millions of Americans who now have health insurance, because the new bill from the Republican Party, they don't have any form of health insurance.
Now, I should say that, in terms of election and political math, there is no indication that Republicans can even pass this new version of the bill.
Senator Rand Paul of Kentucky has come forward against this afternoon.
Moderate senators Susan Collins and Dean Heller are also expected to say no to this new version.
If so, even if only the three of them voted against it, cheers.
Mitch McConnell can only bear the consequences of losing two Republican senators and passing the bill.
It looks like he doesn't have these numbers anymore.
This is expected to be the reason why he postponed the Senate's beloved adjournment of August, leaving the Senate in Washington. C.
For at least two more weeks, so their arms get close because of some extra twist.
Despite this uncertainty, we were told that they might put this thing on the floor as early as next week to vote. Tick tock.
That's what it is for us tonight.
See you tomorrow.
It's time for "The last word of Lawrence O'Donnell.
Good evening, Lawrence.
This is a report card in a hurry.
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